Things to know before you order the Depreciation Report

0:00 – What a Depreciation Report Is For

0:00 Jeremy Bramwell: Hello everybody. My name is Jeremy Bramwell, I'm the president of Strata Reserve Planning. Actually, on the next page I've got a little bit about myself. Strata Reserve Planning, my depreciation report firm, is one of the oldest and largest firms in British Columbia doing depreciation reports. I've written for UBC and advise CMHC on depreciation reports, I contribute to their course. Recently there was a committee and I was the subject matter expert for depreciation reports for the BC Housing policy branch, for the upcoming changes to the Strata Property Act, and we'll go through that a bit in this live presentation.

0:50 And I'm published on depreciation reports in the Real Estate Institute of BC, CHOA, Western Investor, Business in Vancouver, the Globe, as well as some TV interviews. So I'll give you a bit of my experience over the next 30 minutes. The first thing I really want to talk about is, what is a depreciation report, what's its purpose? So it's actually a budget planning tool, that's its purpose. It's to help stratas make informed decisions about how much money they have to save to pay for the capital repairs they're going to come into in the future.

1:33 So there are a lot of people kind of confused it with other types of reports.

1:41 – Maintenance Manuals, Warranties and BECAs

1:43 Jeremy Bramwell: So, a maintenance manual contains information regarding the operation, servicing, repair and decommissioning of building devices like HVAC systems, boilers, that sort of thing. There's no financial aspect to this, so they're not really a substitute for depreciation reports. Another thing we also run into a lot of times is 2-5-10 warranty reviews. So when you buy into a new strata, the 2-5-10 is automatic: 12 months interior areas have to be reviewed, 15 months the common areas, five years the building envelope defects, and 10 years are major structural defects.

2:34 Again, these are inspection reports, so they have nothing to do with financial planning. So again, these are not depreciation reports. And finally I'm going to talk about BECAs. BECAs are technical reports specifically focusing on the exterior of the property. So a BECA would be, if you had a high-rise, you would get BECAs during your warranty period, at your fourth year and your ninth year, just before the five-year warranty and the 10-year warranty go.

3:12 And then in a high-rise, probably every 10 years. In a wood frame building it's about every 30 years, just to understand how the envelope is going along. Not so much the roof in a wood frame building, but in a high-rise the roof may be involved. But again, BECAs are not depreciation reports, and this is a common misunderstanding that we run into all the time. So people say, you know, okay, why do I need a depreciation report?

3:48 – Why Reports Are Required and Deferred

3:50 Jeremy Bramwell: So number one is the law, it's part of the Act. But the government did something very strange when they introduced them in 2009, in that they said you could defer them. So what's happened is we now have a deferral rate of over 80 percent. Now, most high-rises are compliant and they have a report in the last three years, but the wood frame, bare land and industrial strata really have a very high non-compliance rate.

4:29 And that was part of the reason why the committee, the BC Housing policy branch, are looking at the changing of the regulations. The other reason that you should get it is, depreciation reports allow much better financial planning. Yes, the fees are going to increase to meet the financial needs of the development, but the offsetting thing is that it's going to reduce the amount and the quantity of special levies.

5:01 And as you save more money, you're going to be able to measure the financial health of your strata corporation by what we call percent funded, or reserve adequacy.

5:13 – Champlain Towers South and Underfunding

5:15 Jeremy Bramwell: If I could ask Ryan, could you put my photo just off to the side instead of over the slide? That's great, thank you. This is the case of what we call Champlain Towers South. It was a 12-storey building in Surfside that collapsed in 2021. What came out after is, they had kept their CRF stable for over a decade, they ignored the depreciation reports, which are mandatory in Florida.

5:51 And at the time they were seven percent funded. Typically in British Columbia stratas are between 10 to 25 percent funded, so it was underfunded even at that time. It had $700,000 in the bank, which most people would think was a lot. But because it had deferred its maintenance, it needed 10 million dollars worth of work. They had a special levy vote, it was defeated, and three months later the building collapsed.

6:31 So we call this the strata that failed financially before it failed physically.

6:41 – Section 94 and Qualified Person Rules

6:41 Jeremy Bramwell: The power for the depreciation report comes under section 94 of the Strata Property Act. It says a report must be done by a qualified person, it must be obtained estimating the repair and replacement costs of the strata corporation, and you may waive it with a 3/4 vote. So those are the only things it says under the Strata Property Act. What it says a qualified person is, is anybody the strata thinks is qualified.

7:16 So the result of that is, I personally have seen depreciation reports done by strata council members, owners, tenants, property managers, Realtors, the whole conundrum. So that is a real problem within the legislation that strata property owners should be working themselves to get out of.

7:42 – Expected Changes to the Strata Property Act

7:50 Jeremy Bramwell: What we're expecting in the future: depreciation reports will be absolutely mandatory with no deferrals, qualified people will be listed by designation, there'll be dates when depreciation reports are required, there's some talk about prescribed form and content, and there'll be a requirement for developers to obtain enough money to put in the CRF for the first depreciation report. And this gets back to, depreciation reports should be done at the very beginning of the life of a building.

8:30 This is something I think is what's going to happen when the new regulations come out. At least, I think that's what's going to happen. You never know with the government what's going to happen, but this is where everybody thinks it's going to go.

8:47 – Engineers Versus Non-Engineer Providers

8:51 Jeremy Bramwell: So, who is qualified to complete a depreciation report? Well, there's two groups that complete depreciation reports. There's engineers and architects, and then there's non-engineers. So engineers — it's mainly engineers, there's not too many architects in the business — are best qualified for high-rises, due to the complex nature of the buildings. Whereas non-engineers are better for the bare land, the townhomes and the low-rises. There's basic construction costs, and technology and replacement costs are generally static.

9:33 To give you an idea, there was a report out of Toronto last year where they compared the replacement costs in a 20-storey high-rise against a 30-storey high-rise, and basically there was a 50 percent increase in replacement prices just due to those additional 10 storeys.

9:50 – Engineered Versus Functional Reports

9:52 Jeremy Bramwell: So my firm, even though I have an engineer work for me, we work on the non-engineering side of the equation. Most people don't understand this, but there's two types of depreciation reports. There's what we call an engineered report and a functional report. So an engineered report is where there's invasive testing. So invasive testing is when somebody drills into a wall or the roof, and this can only be done by an engineering firm, so it has to be signed off by an engineer.

10:35 So that's what we call an engineered report. A functional report is where we look at it from a physical inspection point of view, and we review the historical documents. And that's how it's done. Now, most engineers will also do a functional report, and the reason that they do a functional report is that they will come back later and say, well, you know, you need a backup, or you need invasive testing, and that's an additional fee.

11:14 You know, like five thousand dollars to drill a hole in the wall because we think there's some moisture back there. So that is the two types of reports. We always advise people, if you've got a mould issue or you've got a structural issue, to immediately go over and get an engineered report, get an engineer, get them to do the invasive testing. But most people don't need that.

11:49 Most people just need a functional report. I've kind of covered this a bit. When you're on council and you have an engineer, the engineer, as long as you get the right type of engineer, is going to be qualified. But make sure you are getting what you want, because in a lot of cases we find that it's done by a technician or an EIT, engineer in training. The disadvantage with an engineer, a lot of it is done as a loss leader.

12:27 The thing also, if they find something that's critical, the engineer can sign paperwork and the council must do it immediately. And it's typically a little more expensive. Functional reports, a little more cost effective, and it really does meet the needs of the Act and the buildings. So what councils should be doing is just expecting a functional report. But if they do get an engineer, talk to the engineering firm and make sure — if there's a price difference, are you getting the engineered report or are you getting the functional requirement?

13:14 Okay. So when you're looking for experience, there's basically four types of nationally accepted people to do them.

13:21 – Designations, Experience and Team Approach

13:25 Jeremy Bramwell: Civil and structural engineers are kind of universally accepted. AACIs, which are the commercial appraisal designation from the Appraisal Institute of Canada — it's the senior one — those are accepted in all provinces but New Brunswick, where they only allow engineers to do it. CRP, Certified Reserve Planner, is a national program designed by the Real Estate Institute of Canada to teach the methodology and how to write a report and do it.

13:56 And the RFPP program is a national program designed by UBC. So these are the main designations that are used out in the industry right now. So when you are looking for experience, you want someone who can read strata plans and blueprints, the person doing the inspection has some construction experience and an understanding of what to include as a component. Not everything in a building goes into a depreciation report.

14:37 The ability to read and interpret bylaws, minutes, easements and titles. And because of this, not everybody… Very rarely do you have one person that knows all of this. So what we find, the best way to do it is to work as a team, because no one person can do it altogether. In our firm I have inspection people, and I'm the financial guy, and that's kind of the way we work it.

15:13 Now, getting the best from your property manager. What happens within the property management business is, many firms have got a list of preferred people. They've got a list of preferred appraisers, and they've got a list of inspectors, and they've got a list of engineers. Depreciation reports require a certain set of skills, so we try to tell property managers that that should be a separate category alone. But what we also find is, in a wood frame building an engineer is not usually required.

15:56 If you only get recommendations from an engineer you should be asking why, from your property management firm. If they say, because you've got structural or mould issues, well that's great. But if you don't, there's no reason why you need an engineer. Do they have providers that work in a team approach? We have done some jobs where we have an engineer and us as a non-engineer, and the reason for that is that engineers are really great at inspecting the envelopes of buildings, but when you go inside a building they're horrible at counting the number of doors in a building.

16:39 They really don't want to measure the carpeting, or count the lights, or that sort of thing. So in high-rises, sometimes what we've done is we've said to the engineer, or in a complex job, you take the envelope and we'll take everything else, and we split the fee. And we find that works very well. And if you're in a high-rise, that may be a solution for you.

17:09 – Conflicts of Interest to Avoid

17:12 Jeremy Bramwell: Conflicts of interest, this is a big problem. Like I said, until they change the qualified people, you've got owners, occupants and tenants in buildings and their families doing it. Stay away from that. Property managers and Realtors, there's potential conflicts there. And contractors: there are some contracting firms around town that will do the depreciation report. It's a loss leader for them, because it will give them a chance to be the sole bid, sole source, of the knowledge of when work is required.

18:00 And for example, if they say that there's a job that is going to be twenty thousand dollars in the summer next year, and then miraculously they're putting in a bid for nineteen thousand dollars in April, and the strata goes, oh great, he says 20 but it's going to be 19. So this is something that I'm very wary of. A professional firm just comes in, does a report, and leaves the building.

18:36 I love this slide, it's fun, but that is how some stratas do look at depreciation reports. I will just say one thing about Yield Exchange. The typical return on investments we see in strata corporations is between 0.75 percent and 1.25 percent in the CRF, and that's because of their allocation between GICs and cash, cash getting nothing.

19:13 Using somebody like Yield Exchange, where you can do what we call laddering, where you can have like $50,000 in five years, $150,000 in four years and $300,000 in three years, where you time those investments to when the depreciation report says you're going to need the money, is an excellent tool to get a much higher return.

19:37 – Funding Models and Contribution Rate Principles

19:40 Jeremy Bramwell: So that's where somebody like Yield Exchange would come in. Now, one of the problems that we have in the industry is that there's no standards. So what we see is definitions for fully funded, scenario A B C D, adequate, recommended model, cash flow model, multi-tier model, and it just goes on. The solution is not to reinvent the wheel, it's to follow the National Reserve Study Standards, or the standards of the Appraisal Institute of Canada, where you've got fully funded, benchmark, baseline and threshold as the base models out there, and they all work into a system.

20:35 The principles of doing a depreciation report is to design a funding plan where you have sufficient cash — well, it makes absolute sense. The second one is to have what we call a stable contribution rate. So what this talks about is that the rate of annual increase should be the same each year. We work on a principle of the optimum contribution rate. So the optimum contribution rate — I don't have the table in the chart — is where you make up the difference between the construction inflation rate and the investment inflation rate.

21:25 So basically, if you're getting, we'll say, one percent on your interest account, and you're getting three percent construction inflation rate, you're losing two percent. So you add that two percent on an annual basis, you just add it to the three percent to give you a five percent as your contribution rate on an annualized basis. So this is something that fits very nicely into this funding principle. The third is that it's evenly distributed among owners, so everybody pays their fair share.

22:04 And lastly, it's fiscally responsible, and what we mean by that is that the council can recommend it to the strata corporation membership and they won't get voted out of office. So this is what basically goes into a depreciation report. So there's some steps here. The default position is that the DR, the depreciation report, everything should be in unless there's a reason to escalate it. So that means building components and common assets, whether it be common or limited common property, are the main ingredients in a depreciation report.

22:45 Two, things that are done in the operating budget are not done. So if it's repaired, replaced or renovated at under once a year, that means that it should be basically excluded. If it's part of a service contract, such as an elevator where replacement is included, then it's not within the report.

23:14 – Sections, Shared Amenities and Pool Table Rule

23:14 Jeremy Bramwell: We sometimes get into what we call sections, so I will just go into a section here. This is what a section complex looks like. They're all over town. You've got the retail section on the main floor, you've got residential upstairs, and then you've got the joint use, which is a parking, amenities, garbage, loading, everything like that. They're defined by access and benefit. Now, what needs to be understood is that the depreciation report is written to the CRF, right, so there's one report per contingency reserve fund.

23:51 And in this section building, each section has their own CRF, so that would mean that there's three reports. Privacy laws restrict someone who's not a member of another section from seeing the financial details of another section. However, the lawyers have also told us that even if you're in a section that's not being discussed, you have the right to read the physical details.

24:31 So what happens in a structure like this is that we issue two reports: one report that has all the physical details of all three sections but only the financial details of the joint section and, let's say, the commercial, and then another report with the financial of the joint use section and the residential. So that's how these ones are dealt with. And then we get into shared amenities between many strata corporations.

25:05 This is a pool that we did, and that has to be done in a separate report, a little supplementary report. This can be like a pool or a road between many corporations. And the reasoning behind that again is privacy legislation, because in this case the details of the primary complex are of no interest and can't be disclosed to any of the other buildings that are sharing this particular pool.

25:40 So that's why supplementary reports are done for shared amenities. This is called the pool table rule. Sometimes there's something that the strata council is just going to decommission. So you go into a new development and there's a pool table, and at the end of the 35 years, the life of the pool table, it's going to have to be replaced. But 20 years in, the strata council goes, we're just not going to replace it.

26:14 In that case it's allowed to be taken out of the depreciation report financial part, but a notation has to be put in, just in case in year 35 the council is made up of guys who want nothing but to bring back the pool table. So this is something that has to be put into the reports as a notation. And step six is, we review what we call the threshold.

26:43 – Thresholds, Software and Book Announcement

26:43 Jeremy Bramwell: So what this is, is a certain amount of money, anything below is not included. It changes on the size of the strata corporation, typically it's one to two percent of the operating budget. And just think of it this way: if you're in a high-rise, do you really want the one chair in the lobby to be in your depreciation report? Probably not. Keeping with the technology part of this, we've done so many reports we actually have built a web-based proprietary software, so we can do it anywhere.

27:25 For example, we're going to be in the Okanagan at the end of the month, and in one week we're doing seven properties. And we can do that because we can put all the details into the software as we're going along. It meets all the Canadian and US organization standards. The Appraisal Institute of Canada is the only organization that has standards for depreciation reports in Canada. The Community Associations Institute does the National Reserve Study Standards in the US, and the Real Estate Institute of Canada doesn't have standards in Canada, but it is the accepted methodology for how to do a depreciation report.

28:15 This is a special announcement, if any of you guys are watching this. This is the first book on depreciation reports. It's coming out in mid-April, and it will be on Amazon near you. If you have any interest, please feel free to send us an email. So, if this is the point where we take questions — but if you want a quote, we have a quick quote thing at stratareserveplanning.com.

28:42 So, questions.

28:46 – Q&A: BECAs, Qualifications and Bare Land Stratas

28:46 Ryan Grant: Okay, there's a few questions here. He said, apologies, I missed this, but are inspection reports and BECAs legally required?

29:00 Jeremy Bramwell: Well, I don't know what you mean by inspection reports, but I will talk about BECAs. Are they legally required? No, not from what I understand. But I believe a strata council would be negligent if it didn't get BECAs at the appropriate time. I do know of a strata that refuses to get BECAs and now has a leaky condo, and if they had got BECAs when they should have, it wouldn't be that big a problem.

29:44 Ryan Grant: And then, is there any action that can be brought against a depreciation report provider who is not qualified, and or has not completed reports in compliance with the Act?

29:56 Jeremy Bramwell: Okay, so right now, under the BC legislation, a dog is qualified to write a depreciation report. So the qualifications for doing a depreciation report in British Columbia are, you're breathing, and the strata council signed a contract with you. So at this time the answer would be no. If someone has not completed within the terms of the Act, I can't give you a legal opinion on that, but I think that's more of a contractual issue.

30:35 Ryan Grant: We have another question. We're a bare land strata with shared street lights and road, the only building we have. How can they make us pay for a depreciation report?

30:52 Jeremy Bramwell: Bare land stratas have to get depreciation reports, and it's just a fact. The cost being thousands and thousands of dollars… If you're saying that someone wants to charge you thousands and thousands of dollars, I would suggest maybe you give us a chance to give you a quote. But they will become mandatory, and once they become mandatory we expect that the financial institutions will make it mandatory to get a mortgage.

31:38 So if you want a mortgage you have to show your depreciation report. So what I would do is work to get the best deal you can on a depreciation report.

31:54 Ryan Grant: And we also got a question about, what do we do with councils who want to omit certain components?

32:06 Jeremy Bramwell: Yes, we have run into this before. It depends on the type of component. If it's like a window, or sliding doors, or carpeting, you know there's no question that's going to be in the report. If it's like the strata goes, well, we're going to get rid of the pool table, then we can make a notation in the report and take the dollar value out, and that's within the standards.

32:41 But we as providers have a level of professionalism that we have to maintain. So if the council wants to get rid of components, it's our responsibility to say no, and it's going to be in it, and that's the end of the report. We offer a draft meeting with the council to go over items, but in the end we have just said to some councils, this is it and that's the way it's going to be, and we're just following the law.

33:29 So sometimes that's the way it has to be.

33:38 Ryan Grant: There is a question: is there anything to help councils to do the council's annual budget contributions for the CRF? They don't cost as much as a depreciation report.

33:53 Jeremy Bramwell: It's hard to sell a product that some councils don't want. But what I will say is, you're welcome to make a spreadsheet up, but a depreciation report is a document made out to the regulations. There's no short form of a depreciation report. When they change the regulations, there will be no way to get out of a depreciation report, you will have to do it, and there'll be designated qualified people who do it.

34:38 So there are certain fly-by-nighters in the industry, they will be gone.

34:50 Ryan Grant: We have one document, the DR, is a high level planning document. What's your opinion about ensuring that a strata uses the report to develop a five-year property schedule so they can predict how much the CRF?

35:04 Jeremy Bramwell: Yeah, so they are high level planning documents.

35:09 – Q&A: Planning Schedules and Vetting Providers

35:13 Jeremy Bramwell: Most professional providers, instead of just putting out that 30 years, will break it down to the components in the schedule, and for every 10 years or every 15 years. Some people will even break it down a little further. It's up to people who want to get a depreciation report to get a sample, to know what they're looking at when they're thinking of getting the depreciation report. I would say, because we probably have a lot of self-managed here, that people should look to CHOA or VISOA, people on those lists of providers, for firms.

36:12 And maybe, if you're a little worried that you're going to get some fly-by-nighters, just see how long they've been doing depreciation reports. We're going into our 13th year, so we've been around for a bit of time. So yeah, that's basically it: make sure that you get a sample, make sure your quote works. Most providers will provide a renewal rate which is less than your original rate, and the reason for that is they've already measured the whole place once.

36:53 If you've been charged five thousand dollars to do a depreciation report and they're saying the next one's going to be $5,200 three years later, that makes no sense to me. There should be a discount on the second report, even though it's three years later, because a lot of the work has already been done.

37:26 Ryan Grant: Okay, I said there's a question: I am new to council, and our depreciation report and reserve fund study consultation appraisal report was confirmed by a real estate consultant. How do we know they are qualified?

37:43 Jeremy Bramwell: Yeah, so, just a bit of language. A depreciation report is used in British Columbia. Reserve study, or reserve fund study, or reserve plan, is used elsewhere in North America. Now, a consultation, a reserve fund study consultation appraisal report — I'm going to guess was done by an appraiser, because a reserve fund is not an appraisal, it's a different documentation, and under CUSPAP, the rules that appraisers work under, it's done under a separate set of rules.

38:25 So how they qualified, that was the decision of the last council, I'm not going to get into that. But I'm just going to say, going forward, you want to see a sample of the report from all your providers, and some longevity.

38:48 Ryan Grant: Another question: we have a depreciation report done by a qualified person. We have a council member who wants to assist the person, include things that the qualified person does not feel need to be included.

39:00 Jeremy Bramwell: Well, we don't often get that. There is a flow chart to decide what goes into a depreciation report, I went through it earlier. If something is not on that flow chart then it basically should be excluded. So yeah, our firm does do depreciation report reviews. So if this is an issue, please feel free to give us a buzz about it. Our phone number's on the slides, of course, here in Vancouver, and we've got an office in Victoria.

39:51 – Q&A: Renewal Frequency, Mandates and Report Costs

39:51 Ryan Grant: Any other questions? So, how often should we get a renewal report?

39:57 Jeremy Bramwell: Okay, so under the legislation it's every three years. There was some talk about going to every five years, but after the building fell down just north of Miami, insurers throughout North America are now going to three years. If you have a reserve study in the States and it's longer than three years, good luck on getting well-priced insurance. And that's eventually what's going to happen here as well.

40:32 So every three years is the issue.

40:41 Ryan Grant: Okay, so this is a good question. I have a client that is purchasing a condo in a 30 year old building where the majority of owners voted against the depreciation report. What are the possible ramifications?

40:53 Jeremy Bramwell: The possible ramifications are, you guys are going to get killed financially. The most work in a building comes every 25 to 35 years, in that area. If there's no depreciation report it means that nobody's looked at the possible expenses that are due between that 25 and 35 year lifespan. In a wood frame building you're going to get a new roof, there's going to be a lot of windows, a lot of sliding doors, some painting.

41:38 So that is a high expense period. If your client wants to phone us up, we may be able to do quite a fast depreciation report. But yeah, going into a building with no DR, none ever getting done in 30 years, is not a good idea from my point of view.

42:07 Ryan Grant: People are entitled to get a depreciation report when considering buying a condo.

42:10 Jeremy Bramwell: Is that… yeah, that is a very good idea. There are people now, if there's no depreciation report, even if it's a little older, three years, they won't even look at the building. So that is one of the best reasons for getting a depreciation report.

42:33 Ryan Grant: Anonymous: I had to step away, but how do you know that the government is going to require all stratas to have depreciation reports? Bill 14, 2020 provides that the government has the ability to pass a cabinet regulation requiring all stratas to have depreciation reports, but they haven't moved yet.

42:51 Jeremy Bramwell: Well, that's a very easy answer. I'm on the committee. I was on the committee as a subject matter expert on depreciation reports for the committee putting together the regulations. I can't discuss what we talked about, but the reason the committee is there was to discuss mandatory. Now, in regards, for those who said, well that's an NDP thing, it's well known that Mr Todd Stone of the opposition is also in support of depreciation reports.

43:28 So it doesn't matter which party is in power in the next short while, depreciation reports are going to be mandatory.

43:54 Ryan Grant: I'll just cover this last question: how much is it going to cost to get a depreciation report?

43:57 Jeremy Bramwell: How much is a depreciation report? I can only tell you what my firm does. Depreciation reports for a bare land strata, they start 2500 to 3,000. If you're talking townhomes, the small ones start at about 3,500, and they can go up depending on the clubhouses and how many clusters there are. Apartment buildings are in the 4,000 range, depending on how many components there are in there. So a little walk-up with no elevator starts about four thousand and it goes up from there.

44:41 We don't want to discuss too much about pricing because I do have competitors, but if you do have a question about pricing please feel free to go to quick quote, and Nicole, my assistant, will get a proposal to you.

44:56 Ryan Grant: Awesome, that was really great Jeremy. Tons of information, wealth and knowledge as always, and tons of questions. That was really good, we got just a ton of questions that came in, which is awesome. I hope that really helps alleviate some of the concerns that people had, and just informs everyone again about depreciation reports and how they're really beneficial to their properties. So yes. And also I'd like to congratulate you on your book that's coming out.

45:25 I'm definitely going to be picking up a copy and giving it a good read.

45:30 Jeremy Bramwell: Yes, we'll be putting up a link to some bookstores and to Amazon mid-month.

45:38 Ryan Grant: Perfect, we'll be sure to let our subscribers know.

45:42 Jeremy Bramwell: Okay, well Ryan, I'll send you a copy so you can have a free one.

45:51 Ryan Grant: Great, yes, thanks for having… again today, right. We really appreciate it, that you came on, and you know, we're going to keep on seeing what good content we can come up with and work with you in the future. Okay, thanks again Jeremy, bye.